It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates)

Congratulations to both Democratic frontrunners!

Hillary Clinton has won the popular vote by over 300,000 votes.  Barack Obama has won 130 more pledged delegates.

Here are the final totals:

POPULAR VOTE  (all primaries and caucuses)
Hillary Clinton: 17,785,009
Barack Obama: 17,479,990

PLEDGED DELEGATES
Barack Obama: 1766.5
Hillary Clinton: 1639.5

Currently, 2118 delegates are needed to win the nomination, according to the DNC.  A successful appeal of the RBC's recent decisions on Florida and Michigan would change that threshold to 2210, but that's less relevant now because the pledged delegate allocations are fairly final (pending completion of state conventions) and, again, neither Clinton nor Obama will have enough pledged delegates to reach either 2118 or 2210.

Since we got a lecture from party  member and SuperD Donna Brazile Saturday at the RBC meeting on the importance of her momma's lesson about following the rules, let's review the DNC's rules for winning the nomination.

It's not complex.  In a nutshell:    If a nominee does not win a sufficient number of pledged delegates to secure the nomination, the automatic (or "super") delegates must vote to determine who the nominee will be.  The automatic delegates, who are elected and unelected party officials, can use any criteria they each find appropriate when voting, but the original intent and purpose of the super delegate system was to ensure that the party nominate the most electable candidate for the general-election battle.

Most importantly:  The automatic delegates cast their votes at the Democratic National Convention along with the pledged delegates.  This year the convention will be on August 25-28 in Denver.  It will certainly be an historic event as presidential conventions go because of the extraordinary task at hand for the automatic delegates.  Their votes, by the way, will be cast by private ballot.

That's the status of the Democratic Presidential nomination process.

Now, Barack Obama can "declare himself the nominee" (FOX News characterization last night), he can throw all the big parties and make all the pretty speeches in as many hope-change-unity rallies he wants.  He can campaign with vigor against John McCain.  (And so can Hillary.)  The Clinton-hating party clique can "proclaim" that Obama is the nominee; the mainstream media can continue to ignore reality...None of this is surprising, and none of it matters...

Because there will not be a nominee until August.  There will not be -- there cannot be -- any nominee until August.   And even the "presumptive nominee" status is a stretch because normally that claim is made by a candidate who has reached the required number of PLEDGED delegates (as John McCain did).

And anyone who thinks that Hillary Clinton supporters don't understand all of this...is delusional and seriously underestimates the loyalty and passion of her quiet yet determined army  (although some of us aren't that quiet).

We are informed and engaged constituents committed to a brilliant and inspiring leader.  We are NOT going to fold our tents and hop on board Obama's train just cause that's what we are told to do by people who, frankly, are experts at losing elections.  NO.  We have collectively determined that we'd actually prefer that the Democrats win the Presidency this year.  No more McGoverns, Carters, Kerrys, Gores, Harts, Deans....Nothing personal, guys, but your track record stinks.

In the 2000 Presidential Election, Al Gore won about 550,000 more votes than George Bush.  Given the consequences of that election fraud, I thought it would be a cold day in h**l before Democrats would let anyone steal the election from another Democrat...But then again, these are the General Election losers running our party so...

So, while Obama is zipping around the country and world celebrating "victory," let the rest of us remain sober and focused in respect of these basic and indisputable FACTS:

1. Hillary Clinton has now officially won more votes than any person to seek the presidential nomination of EITHER political party in history, and her candidacy accurately represents the will of the people who voted in the Democratic primaries and caucuses.

2. Hillary Clinton won ALL of the major states except Illinois.

3. Hillary Clinton finished the primary season with momentum, out-performing expectations in several races such as, most recently, Indiana, West Virginia, Kentucky, Puerto Rico, and South Dakota (see Obama's predictions spreadsheet); Obama, in contrast, is wheezing across the finish line with a downward trajectory that bodes poorly for the general election.

4. Hillary Clinton assembled a coalition of loyal voters that can guarantee victory against McCain, including white women, hispanics, catholics, jews, and lunch-bucket workers.

5. Barack Obama is still a relative unknown, remains unvetted by the media, and is teetering on the brink of being clobbered by the GOP, RNC, 527 Oppo Teams due to his treasure chest of bizarre skeletons.

In light of these cold, hard facts, Hillary Clinton bloggers and supporters will continue doing what we've been doing:  Passionately making the case that Hillary Clinton will be the best President, that she has a superior chance of beating John McCain. It's do-or-die for us, and for the country. And we have every intention -- indeed a duty -- to carry that message all the way to Denver.

Note:  popular vote totals from ABC News and pledged delegate totals from Real Clear Politics.

Cross posted at TexasDarlin
TexasDarlin, all rights reserved



Display:


Re: It's a Tie! (1.24 / 58)

Oh and by the way, why DID Barack Obama lose South Dakota yesterday?  And he didn't just LOSE it, he lost it by 12 points!  Are the demographics that different from North Dakota?  Or is that he's lost steam since then, and after all ND was a caucus and SD was a closed primary....hmmm.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:53:24 PM EST

Its over (1.96 / 32)

You need to embrace that reality.


by johnnyappleseed on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (2.00 / 19)

I encourage people not to get drawn into this nonsense.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:03:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (2.00 / 10)

Nonsense? Why this is serious stuff...Remember another great diarist here from Hillaryis44, Universal?

XXXXX (AKA Universal) Says:
June 2nd, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Kostner -- excellent. No need to post right away. As long as we're moving in that direction is the important point, I think.
1950's -- I just started looking for them myself. I joined McCain's campaign site, the RNC site, and have bookmarked a few others.
www.rnc.org/
www.johnmccain.com/blog/
www.mccainnow.com/
www.blogs4mccain.com/

I wish people from that site would stop rec'cing diaries here & on McCain blogs simulataneously.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:20:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (1.87 / 8)

It's pretty simple, really.  Just look at the people who are rec'ing these diaries and take away their rec'ing priveleges.  Will they still hijacking the reclist in Aug. getting all pumped up for a convention protest, all 19 of them(there are presently 19 rec's for this diary).  How about September?  November even?  I've got a better idea - get rid of them now.  This site should be better than that.  This isn't No Quarter or Hillaryis44, this is MyDD.  It should be better than this.


by JustJack on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:06:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (none / 0)

Universal is back at My DD as Zeitgeist9000


McCain's occupation plan will achieve victory when it bestows liberty to the freedom loving people of Iraq and their freedom loving oil.
by Lefty Coaster on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:26:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (2.00 / 4)

You're right. But it's very tempting. It's like a candy dish at Grandma's. Full of old, unsatisfying candy, but it's better than leafing through the old, unsatisfying magazines.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:22:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (2.00 / 2)

I think it is importnt to challenge it.  Sorry.


by Same As It Ever Was on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:42:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (1.83 / 6)

I agree, but get it off the reclist somehow.  Don't let these holdouts hijack the reclist.  This stuff needs to stop.

"Because there will not be a nominee until August.  There will not be -- there cannot be -- any nominee until August.   And even the "presumptive nominee" status is a stretch because normally that claim is made by a candidate who has reached the required number of PLEDGED delegates (as John McCain did)."

John McCain's 'presumptive nominee' status was based on just pledged delegates because THE REPUBLICANS DO NOT HAVE SUPERDELEGATES.  As for the Democratic pledged delegates(elected delegates), Obama secured a majority of them a few weeks ago.  And he also has now clinched a majority of the superdelegates too, and in the process of winning all these delegates, he has indeed clinched the nomination.  Hillary Clinton will not be the nominee.  It's over.  Time to let it go.  There's no time to coddle these folks who seek to undermine Obama's legitimacy.

Theses delusional screeds are just a lame attempt to undermine the legitimacy of the Democratic Nominee for President of the United States, Senator Barack Obama.  Diaries that push Clinton supporters further toward the edge of denial serve only to hinder the prospects of electing a Democratic President in '08, and should be called out as such.  It should be made clear that they are not welcome on a site dedicated to a Democrat becoming the next President.


by JustJack on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:58:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (2.00 / 1)

First of all the diary is correct.  Neither candidate secured the required amount of pledged delegates to clinch the nomination.

Un-pledged delegates do not vote until August, and as we have all seen, can easily and quickly change from one to another.  However, I can not see that happening, unless something dramatic were to happen upon Obama's part.  Again I don't see that happening.

Obama is the presumptive nominee, until the actual August convention in Denver he is not the nominee -- that should be clear.  Remember...rules are rules.  Pointing this does not undermine Obama's candidacy or in any way disparages him or his campaign, and you're attempt to insinuate that is what is destroying the party and legitimacy.

Instead of trying to brow beat and strong arm people into thinking like you; you might want to think about actual party unity, and start focusing on the down-ticket races, which will actually strengthen the eventual nominee's position and ability to attack and secure more House and Senate seats so that Democrats can actually perform some of the campaign promises that we've been talking about.

Anything else is pure posturing and hyperbole.  You want to help Democrats, help the down-ticket race.  The nominee race will work itself out shortly.  It's out of the people's hands now anyway.  The Party insiders will vote in August and then we'll have a nominee, but I would bet you almost anything that we will be focusing on a specific individual fairly soon.  If you can't handle that, then maybe you shouldn't come around here until then.


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:18:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (none / 0)

"Neither candidate secured the required amount of pledged delegates to clinch the nomination."

Willful ignorance - that's all I can say.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/200 8/06/03/obama-clinches-democratic-nomina tion/

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/ story?id=4987177&page=1

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?
id=D912O5FG0&show_article=1

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/04/a merica/04cndcampaign.php

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/poli ticalintelligence/2008/06/obama_poised_t o_1.html

http://www.cnbc.com/id/24951953


by JustJack on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:00:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (none / 0)

Agreed.  Just ignore it folks.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:01:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (1.90 / 20)

1. Barack Obama has now officially won more votes than any person to seek the presidential nomination of EITHER political party in history, and his candidacy accurately represents the will of the people who voted in the Democratic primaries and caucuses.

2. Barack Obama won 33 OF 56 contests.

3. Barack Obama finished the primary season with momentum, starting the race near 15% in the polls and finishing near 60%; Hillary, in contrast, is wheezing across the finish line with a downward trajectory that bodes poorly for the general election. She has consistently polled between 40% and 50% with no change over a year and a half.

4. Barack Obama assembled a coalition of loyal voters that can guarantee victory against McCain, including white women, hispanics, catholics, jews, and lunch-bucket workers, students, youth, Republicans, independents, college-educated, cross-over voters, blacks, whites, and everything in between.

5. Hillary Clinton is too well known, relentlessly vetted by the media, and spent 20 years being clobbered by the GOP, RNC, 527 Oppo Teams due to her treasure chest of bizarre skeletons.

See, I can play, too.


by not Brit on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

On the bright side... (2.00 / 8)

At least she has finally come to grips with the fact that Hillary didn't win. I guess arguing that it's a "tie" is a step in the right direction.


by not Brit on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:15:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the bright side... (2.00 / 6)

It's like the video juxtaposing Clinton and Obama on the black night scene in Mony Python's Search for the Holy Grail.  Aurthur chops off both arms and both legs, and the black night explains- "All right, we'll call it a draw".


by nwgates on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:21:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On the bright side... (2.00 / 6)

It's almost worse, though, because it sounds vaguely plausable, if you squint at it jeeeeeest right and are nuts.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:23:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (2.00 / 0)

i encourage Obama supporters to not just whisk away this sort of comment since it's a reality that he's lost a lot of important contests towards the end and that weighs on his prospects in November. Face the reality, deal with it, or lose.


by swissffun on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:22:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (2.00 / 7)

The reality of Puerto Rico, South Dakota, Kentucky, West Virginia (Appelachia) Indiana (almost) and Texas not preferring him in a Democratic primary? Oh my stars and garters! Whatever shall he do???


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:25:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (none / 0)

You forget CA, OH, PA, NJ, NY, FL, AR, & NM.

Yes...what shall he do?


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:25:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (none / 0)

The post said "late wins."

Frankly, I'm pretty happy with the current polls. Happy to have Obama pick Balki from "Perfect Strangers" (in open violation of at least two constitutional provisions, but whatever) as a running mate) as veep and win the contest in a landslide today. But if you're still hoping to taut primary results of the great people of Arkansas, who'd as soon eat me as swerve to miss me when crossing the street, (I'm 1/2 Jewish, 1/2 Squirell) as proof of general election strength, go right ahead.

I'll be over here. Storing nuts for the 8 years of Pax Obamaca.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:32:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (none / 0)

While you may be right about Arkansas (more the squirell than the Jewish part), I'd rather Hillary not be Obama's VP.

What's funny though is the post also said...TX, FL, OH, PA, MI, in addition to AR.  But then again, why stop cherry-picking now right?

Pax Obamaca?  Just goes to show it's all about him over the party  Obama?...yes over John McCain...No for the betterment of America.  I hope he wins (when & if Hillary conceeds) yet I personally don't think at the moment he has a shot.  Will I vote for him...probably.  However, my focus now will be on the important issues of getting the down-ticket races competitive and getting them in office.

Pax Obamaca...nah, Pax Democratica.


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:45:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I encourage you (2.00 / 8)

to realize that this primary is over and to start campaigning against McCain.

If you recognize the weakness and care about our party, why don't you work on fixing it instead of supporting a post that keeps the divide in OUR party (note the caps).

Face the reality and don't rec this crap.


by Regenman on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:28:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I encourage you (2.00 / 1)

sorry but i find this sort of comment extremely divisive


by swissffun on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:14:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its over (2.00 / 2)

And this is reality:


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:11:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not till I get my pony (none / 0)

I was promised ponies...


by OtherLisa on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:38:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (1.55 / 20)

Shame rec for the racist troll from NoQuarter spreading lies about our nominee.

Hillary wants you to go home.


If it goes to Denver, we all lose. Not Obama, not Clinton, WE ALL LOSE IN NOVEMBER.
by blue2008 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:57:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (2.00 / 12)

Tell Rove and Bushie we say hi!

You are now in the minority. More HRC fans and joining forces with BO fans to build a true coalition. Go away - shoo fly!


Obama 08!
by comingawakening on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:59:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (1.88 / 9)

 Or is that he's lost steam since then, and after all ND was a caucus and SD was a closed primary....hmmm.

Maybe the Obamabots bullied and gamed the caucus!?!?!?

These charges have no place here. You think you're cut when all you are doing is trolling and smearing OUR presumptive nominee.


Obama/Clark (still dreaming)
by spacemanspiff on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:03:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (2.00 / 10)

Hillary won a depressed turnout vote in South Dakota because she put in the effort there while Obama had turned primarily to the general.  A lot of Obama supporters also probably stayed home knowing that the nomination was in the bag.  

It was a nice win for her and congratulations to her for poaching a state that should have been his.


I like baked beans.
by SpideyDem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:20:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (2.00 / 3)


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:19:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (2.00 / 2)

Maybe you should start recycling those dual-citizenship diaries.


by rfahey22 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:30:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (2.00 / 2)

It was 10%, not 12% in SD.

We are informed and engaged constituents committed to a brilliant and inspiring leader.  We are NOT going to fold our tents and hop on board Obama's train just cause that's what we are told to do by people who, frankly, are experts at losing elections.

How many elections has Mark Penn won lately?


by Virginia Liberal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:50:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is this snark? (2.00 / 1)

Completely serious question (unlike those who usually use it at an insult.) I really feel like this is someone imitating the well-known MyDD poster's style.

After all, your points are:

2. Hillary Clinton won ALL of the major states except Illinois.

3. Hillary Clinton finished the primary season with momentum, out-performing expectations in several races such as, most recently, Indiana, West Virginia, Kentucky, Puerto Rico, and South Dakota (see Obama's predictions spreadsheet); Obama, in contrast, is wheezing across the finish line with a downward trajectory that bodes poorly for the general election.

4. Hillary Clinton assembled a coalition of loyal voters that can guarantee victory against McCain, including white women, hispanics, catholics, jews, and lunch-bucket workers.

5. Barack Obama is still a relative unknown, remains unvetted by the media, and is teetering on the brink of being clobbered by the GOP, RNC, 527 Oppo Teams due to his treasure chest of bizarre skeletons.

If I'm wrong and this is the real person, then a version of Poe's Law probably is coming into effect here


John McCain
by MILiberal on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:06:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm sorry, TexasDarlin. (2.00 / 2)

But it's over. And there's nothing anybody can do about it. It's too late.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:16:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I congratulate both candidates (none / 0)

and rec'd your diary, but can't rec your comment. It's wording is ungracious, inflammatory, and an embarassment to me, a Hillary supporter. Please stop, thank you kindly.


by phoenixdreamz on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:26:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I congratulate both candidates (none / 0)

Why rec a diary titled "It's a tie"?  Do you think this an accurate portayal of the state of the race?  Do you think perpetuating this idea in the delusional manner the diarist has will help to elect Obama?  Indeed, will it help Hillary Clinton herself to move forward and do the right thing, a chance she passed up last night?  This diary accomplishes nothing positive whatsoever and serves only to undermine the Democratic Nominee.


by JustJack on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:34:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (2.00 / 1)

This diary reminds me of the Monty Python skit where King Arthur battled the Black Knight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FW no

Can anyone teach me how to embed videos?


John McCain vows to overturn Roe
by soccerandpolitics on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:36:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (2.00 / 1)

Yes. Go to the youtube page you want to embed, look in the right column for a box that says "embed" and copy the code. Paste it in a diary or comment. Check "preview" to make sure it copied properly.



McCain
by Black Anus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:43:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If Obama got ZERO votes in Michigan (1.66 / 3)

Than Hillary got ZERO votes in Michigan.

And Texas Darlin is a liar.


McCain's occupation plan will achieve victory when it bestows liberty to the freedom loving people of Iraq and their freedom loving oil.
by Lefty Coaster on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:36:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fearless Tracker #10 (2.00 / 0)

I'm sorry, but you're leaking RTP all over the place.  Could you please stop?

Fearless Tracker: Usually mucking about at the bottom of diaries, and this time making an exception.


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:39:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (none / 0)

I'm Nicolas Chauvin and I have approved this message.


by amadon on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:40:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yes congratulations to both! (none / 0)

and let the best person win in August!  Two ballots at the convention, and all are free to change their minds after the first ballot.  Right now they both have asterisks beside their names: potential nominee until August!

The SD results just confirm the difference between the closed/open primaries and the caucuses...I think an analysis of this was posted here the other day. Imo, this system should be reformed to really reflect the will of the people.

I'd like to see both candidates continue to show and demonstrate how they would take on McCain under any label they want (presumed nominee, nominee, potential nominee, candidate) so we can all see this and come together behind our nominee in August. Let's keep the involvement going and not sit back!


by 4justice on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:58:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yes congratulations to both! (none / 0)

The first ballot will be Obama winning by pledged and plenty of SD's.The ones voting for some other candidate on the first ballot will get a chance to change their vote on the second ballot, the one where as customary a vote is taken to have a UNANIMOUS vote of approval for the prospective nominee. That's the custom. So on vote #2 it will be All Obama ,100%. and done.

All of this tie stuff is self parody and delusion.

54 or 64 Sd'ds came intoday, more are unloading their"uncommitted" status, more Clinton SD's are changing, it's a wave of get this primary behind us and on with the Democratic Big Win in November.

Hillary Clinton is on the spot with the Democratic Party to acknowledge that and be a gracious supporter. It is expected of the runner up in these things.

Those are the true facts about Democratic primaries, regardless of the year you are talking about.

This diary ,"It's a tie" is frankly not only incorrect, but delusional and unhelpful.  This is not what many,many HRC supporters are saying today. They are urging her to wind this up with the grace and style she was known for.


by PeteRock on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Truth is truth (2.00 / 1)

And why should asking a perfectly legitimate question be troll rated?


by izarradar on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Stage 3: (none / 0)

Bargaining.


John McCain: He flunked ECON 101.
by Shem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:32:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No presumptive nominee with supers. (none / 0)

The status of presumptive nominee or having "clinched" or reaqched the magic number must be done without superdelegates.  If the primary season closed with neither candidate winning enough votes to clinch in pledged delegates, it goes to convention to determine which will be the nominee.

The reason: superdelegate votes are fungible until they are cast and recorded at convention.  Much has changed in the las 80 days and much will change in the next.  No one knows what the vote will be in August.  This is the way the rules are set up and why.

We have a candidate and some party leaders who  want that candidate to be the nominee who are breaking the rules.  Nothing new.  Hillary is correct to press her case with the supers and to spend the summer on a crusade to count the votes and try to correct the various instances during the primaries when the voters intentions did not receive fair reflection in the outcome.  Fair reflaction of the voters' intention is the bedrock of the Democratic Party Charter.

Think about it. Why would a group of leaders or a candidate be so incredibly eager to shut down an election process?  Why be so obvious in violation of the party rules and why antagonize so many millions of voters?  Why suffer huge losses in party membership and donations?

Why show yourself to the American People as one who will not follow due process and run and win fair and square?  What would make any rank and file Democrat and the most necessary Reagon Democrat feel that they are values by this party?  Why is Obama that convinced that he can't win by the rules?

Dean, Reid and Pelosi say they will issue "stern letter" to superdelegates demanding that they chose a candidate and announce it at once.  These power handlers in the party are threatening superdelegates to decide three months early what their vote will be and reveal it publicly NOW.  But the prescious party rules say that the ballot must be secret and has to be cast at the convention in a monitored, recorded proces.

People who have studied the rules and been involved in the pary processes for various conventions kknow this and also know that what the "leaders" are doing is really wrong.

The leader of the House and of the Senate have much say in the assignment of members to committees and in the scheduling of votes and bringing legislation to the floor.  Their "stern" reguirement on members implies a threat about their jobs.

We have rules in this society about people in power over other people's jobs using that power to coerce people to abridge or sumbmit their rights.  Yet we have allowed the creation of an environment where many things that society abhors are now expected and usual.

 Something is very wrong.  We had better find out what it is before we present this man to the voter as our nominee.  We only have 80 days to put this right.


by itsadryheat on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:00:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's Over (2.00 / 20)

Obama is the nomonee.
No amount of fuzzy math will change that.
by parahammer on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:55:32 PM EST

Re: It's Over (2.00 / 13)

indeed I am still calling it now

it will be Biden vs. Huckabee in the fall you will see! because technically neither party has a nominee untill september. could be why we call them presumptive!


Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee
by TruthMatters on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:57:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Biden 08!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (none / 0)


by nwgates on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:23:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ALL ABOARD THE GRAVEL TRAIN!!!!!!! (2.00 / 1)


by notxjack on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:38:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ALL ABOARD THE GRAVEL TRAIN!!!!!!! (none / 0)

Gravelanche!  

I hope he gets a cable show.  He is one of the most entertaining nutbags I've ever seen.  It's hard not to like the guy.


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:22:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kucinich/ Gravel '08!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (2.00 / 1)

Biden is the anti-christ! If the ticket is not Kucinich/Gravel, I'm not voting!!! I've put my fingers in my ears and I can't hear you! So there!


Bush murders soldiers for profit. McCain wants to wet his beak.
by awobbly on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:42:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As a Hillary supporter, I concur. (2.00 / 20)

Obama has the votes for the nomination.  He is our nominee.  We need to put away our divisive diaries and embrace the new reality.


Another Hillary Supporter for Obama!
by Beltway Dem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:00:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As a Hillary supporter, I concur. (2.00 / 4)

Beltway Dem for state campaign chair.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:18:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Alright, we'll call it a draw!" (2.00 / 17)


by Slim Tyranny on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:56:35 PM EST

Youtube is the 8th wonder of the world n/t (2.00 / 4)


by johnnyappleseed on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:59:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and I am the 9th! (2.00 / 1)


by Slim Tyranny on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:59:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youtube is the 8th wonder of the world n/t (2.00 / 1)

Technically, Andre the Giant was the 8th wonder of the world. Youtube would be 9th.


If you are not voting Obama, please let me know so I can replace your sorry ass with another new voter.
by Darknesse on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:57:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I like this version better (2.00 / 8)


by Tatan on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:02:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

god bless youtube (2.00 / 2)


by Slim Tyranny on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:06:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for finding and posting what... (2.00 / 2)

I've been thinking :P


by notxjack on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:09:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (2.00 / 10)

Great use of snark in this diary. You had me going for a moment there;)


by animated on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:56:50 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (2.00 / 21)

No, its not a tie.  The nomination has been decided.

Obama also won the popular vote by over 10,000 votes even without the caucuses that are always left out according to Chuck Todd of MSNBC last night.

Its time to support the Democratic Party and its nominee.


by WellstoneDem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:57:30 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (2.00 / 2)

Since when does "presumptive nom . . .

never mind


by Same As It Ever Was on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:08:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (2.00 / 4)

Here... just because I think you may need a little help...

Main Entry: pre·sump·tive  
Pronunciation: -ˈzəm(p)-tiv\
Function: adjective
Date: 15th century
1 : based on probability or presumption

... as in "based on the probability" of having a majority of the delegates in a race where a majority of delegates wins... Obama IS the Presumptive nominee.

Now... it is true that these delegates have yet to vote, but that does not mean this race isnt over.  It is.  The finish line has been crossed.  It has just not been made official.

And he didnt "crown" himself the emperor... he and most other people on the planet know that a race is over when the finish line is crossed.  Of course it is always true that it is not final until it is official, and that wont happen until the delegate votes are cast... but in all races, the winner that crosses the line first is still the "unofficial" winner.  Everyone knows that, and unless something happens that takes this win away from him between now and the delegate votes... he is the nominee.

Period.


by herenow on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:17:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (none / 0)

Excellent conceptualization, since we're nearing the Olympics...

Obama won the marathon.  Although he won't get the gold medal until the ceremony, the race is over.  


by Wayward Son on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:04:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Huh? (2.00 / 8)

No ties for the Presidential nomination.  Just a split decision on votes and delegates (sorry, you win with delegates)

Barack Obama's our nominee.  What you do about it is your business.  I strongly advise voting for him.  I strongly advise him to put Clinton on the ticket.   But what he does about that is his business).


by activatedbybush on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:57:32 PM EST

Delusional as always SoCal (2.00 / 13)

You just get off the phone with your buddy Mr.Sinclair?


Obama/Clark (still dreaming)
by spacemanspiff on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:58:13 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular (2.00 / 11)

this isn't gonna hold much water with folks today.


"Rankles and Rush Limbaugh, ruining the chaos brand since 2008."
by alyssa chaos on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:58:33 PM EST

don't worry about water BO will take care of it! (2.00 / 3)

"this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow  and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on Earth. This was the moment -- this was the time -- when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves, and our highest ideals"


by GendraX on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:21:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: don't worry about water (2.00 / 1)

"THIS IS OUR MOMENT"


"Rankles and Rush Limbaugh, ruining the chaos brand since 2008."
by alyssa chaos on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:33:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton will soon (2.00 / 14)

endorse Obama and all this wil end.  


by TomP on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:59:09 PM EST

I, for one, (2.00 / 17)

hope she does it very quickly.  I spent a lot of time and money on her campaign.  I was very invested in her nomination, and I took a lot of punches, so I think I am well qualified to express my hope that she will put a quick end to all of the nonsense.


Another Hillary Supporter for Obama!
by Beltway Dem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:02:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"treasure chest of bizarre skeletons" (2.00 / 25)

TD's words translated: "SCARY MUSLIM!!!!!!"

And that's literally true, check out her website, she subscribes to the "mysterious Muslim background" school of thought.

Hey, TexasDarlin, your smears are no longer wanted around here.  Grow up or move on.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:59:17 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (2.00 / 11)

adios, adios my little darlin'


by citizendave on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:59:52 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (2.00 / 16)

It's time to congratulate both campaigns and get on with the business of electing Sen. Obama as the next president. I look forward to your diary on this, TexasDarlin.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:01:53 PM EST

Barack Obama IS the nominee. (2.00 / 8)

Either get behind that or start checking out the McCain web site.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:02:23 PM EST

Good grief... (2.00 / 4)

I actually, at this point, found your diary kinda funny.  Your loyalty is.... utterly fascinating (especially for those of us interested in pop psychology).  

Have a great day!


"Not only do I want an elite president, I want someone who's embarrassingly superior to me." -- Jon Stewart, 4/15/08
by JulieinVT on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:02:42 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (2.00 / 8)

TexasDarlin, if you have a moment (and it seems like you have more than a few based upon the length of the diary), I suggest you open up the dictionary and look up the meaning of "fact".  I doubt you will find it comports with your use of it here.


United we stand, divided we fall.
by mefeck on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:03:27 PM EST

TexasDarlin's theme song (2.00 / 1)

Should be this: "Oh, life could be a dream (sh-boom)
If only all my precious plans would come true (sh-boom)
If you would let me spend my whole life lovin' you
Life could be a dream, sweetheart"
by skywaker9 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:03:29 PM EST

Nice, and how about this one: (2.00 / 1)


by Slim Tyranny on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:05:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (2.00 / 7)

Time to end this.

Please stop, Clinton has lost, she fought well and hard, but has lost.

Delegate math is the only math that determines the nominee. There is a nominee who has passed the needed delegate threshold.

IT
IS
OVER

Get with the program, or depart.


by notedgeways on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:07:42 PM EST

Give it up (2.00 / 4)

Clinton was apparantly expecting to score big in Puerto Rico, so she could then approach SDs with the argument that she'd ACTUALLY won the popular vote (intead of this "let's count an election where I was the only candidate on the ballot" nonsense).

Didn't happen.  Game over.  


by IncognitoErgoSum on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:09:58 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (2.00 / 2)

If you want to play this game  . . .

Under the pledged delegate rules, delegates won by candidates who subsequently drop out are free to endorse someone else, if they choose.  Since Edwards endorsed Obama, all of his pledged delegates moved on over to Obama.  No one has said that this is unfair or problematic.

If that's the case, the same thing should be done with the popular vote.  Whatever vote totals those Edwards' delegates represent should go on over to the Obama column.  We need to count those votes, too, don't we?  Right?  Count ALL the votes, not some of the votes.  


by ProfessorReo on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:10:41 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (2.00 / 12)

Why are you wasting your time writing diaries when Larry Johnson needs you to help him find that elusive "whitey" tape?  Answer the clarion call!  Go!! Go!!


I like baked beans.
by SpideyDem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:11:18 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (1.80 / 15)

Like Alegre in her disgusting and divisive diary last night, TexasDarlin has shown herself to be nothing more than a divisive  troll who needs to be thrown out of here.

Get her and this diary off of MYDD.

Get her and the rest of the fucking disgusting trolls out of here.  


by AlexScott on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:11:24 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (none / 0)

Is this snark?


by GendraX on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:24:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (none / 0)

The site is.. excuse me, at least 'was'.. dedicated to electing Democrats.  The Democratic nominee for President in 2008 is Barack Obama.  Anyone posting diaries that are designed to lessen the chances of an Obama victory in November are.. again, excuse me.. 'were'.. against the purpose of the site, and are therefore unwanted trolls.

I admit.. Jerome doesn't make it easy to make blanket statements anymore.


by Wayward Son on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:14:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (1.00 / 6)

I agree wholeheartedly, 100%.  Hillary is the best candidate.  We are a quiet
but determined army.   Thank you for posting ann inspiring diary.
by findthesource on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:11:56 PM EST

How many McCain blog points is this worth? n/t (2.00 / 5)


by johnnyappleseed on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:20:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How many McCain blog points is this worth? n/t (2.00 / 5)

Six more fictional rants and I get a free Diet Coke! Whoo hoo!

By the way, is it just me or have those official John McCain talking points still not changed?


by Exhausted Pennsylvanian on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:54:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (2.00 / 2)

Quiet?  Hardly.


I like baked beans.
by SpideyDem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:23:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We could only hope. nt (none / 0)


by Same As It Ever Was on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:45:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Who's Ann Inspiring? (2.00 / 1)

and why are people posting from her diary?  She must be popular, if she's delegating folks to post for her because she's all tied up right now.


by synchronicity on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:48:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (between the voices in your head) (2.00 / 5)

It's like she isn't even trying anymore...come on!  Throw in a Manchurian Candidate reference!  Say he send 1/2 his salary to a Madrasa in Iran!  Come On SoCalDarling - put some effort into it!


Congratulations Steny Hoyer! Our 2008 Chickenshit Leader Of The Year!
by RockvilleLiberal2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:13:02 PM EST

Is this LinFar? (none / 0)

Why are you calling her SoCal Darling?

I'm always confused by the multiple monikers that folks use to give the illusions of a consensus (ie SusanUnPC, SusanHu and Anna something or the other).


by Regenman on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:31:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this LinFar? (none / 0)

Because she is not from Texas, she lives in southern CA.  The whole Texas thing is a folksy fantasy.


by interestedbystander on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:58:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this LinFar? (2.00 / 1)

Seriously? Lol. I'm a newish member here, although been a member for years at the Big Orange. I don't want to be rude, but after this lala land diary your comment just made me laugh out loud for real.


John McCain hates terrorists, except the ones that hate women. Those are just swell.
by terra on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:10:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (2.00 / 2)

King Arthur to Black Knight: "Okay, we'll call it a draw".


by IncognitoErgoSum on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:13:57 PM EST

Typo in the diary title (2.00 / 4)

Should be "It's a Lie!"


by JJE on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:18:12 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (2.00 / 8)

Why aren't these diaries deleted by the admins?


by Cheebs on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:21:02 PM EST

It appears that only (2.00 / 1)

negative comments against these types of diaries are deleted.  For one brief moment I thought there was a reprieve from this  um, I have to be careful, this type of diary.  I was incorrect.


by gchaucer2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:13:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It appears that only (2.00 / 1)

Thar be a sith lord here that protects all denizens from Hillaryis44. Once was a noble jedi, till to the dark side he did turn.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:23:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (none / 0)

Yeah, see, but there's a little problem with Hillary...


Stop the racism. Fight the smears.
by CrazyDrumGuy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:23:22 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (2.00 / 6)

My favorite part of her diary is how she used RCP for pledged delegate totals but decided RCP's popular vote totals didn't match her perogative so she switched to ABC


by reggie23 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:24:54 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (2.00 / 1)

I thought that was great, too. The ABC vote counter is terrible because it doesn't fully explain which votes are excluded.


by jdusek on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:48:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (1.00 / 1)

woah!!!! Obama supporters. This diary is not a hit piece, it's a reflection of the crrent situation entering the GE. dismissing this using racist slurs etc. is highly inappropriate.


by swissffun on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:25:01 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (2.00 / 10)

First of all its a diary that LIES.

Second of all, since Obama is now the Democratic Nominee, this diary only serves to divide.

TexasDarlin is a troll.

This diary is a troll diary.

Both need to be deleted.


by AlexScott on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:26:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates (2.00 / 4)

It's a reflection of the situation inside the heads of a few deluded holdouts in the metaphorical equivilents of some South Pacific Island caves, within which the Mark Penns and Howard Ickies pace back in forth with polling software carved out of bamboo arguing that Hillary, by arguing that McCain would have been a better president than Obama, somehow still deserves consideration to be on his ticket.

In time, they will either join up with the Others, go swimming with the Blue Dolphins, or make a baby with a far-too-young Brooke Shields. No matter what, in regards to the election, it ain't no tie. It's over.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:36:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's a Tie! (2.00 / 11)

Sure, the New York Giants scored more points, but the New England Patriots had more first downs.  As we all know, to be a championship football team, you have to make a lot of first downs.  That the Patriots made more first downs than the Giants shows that the Giants simply limped to the finish, and don't deserve the championship, despite scoring more points.

Therefore, I join you in crowning the Giants and the Patriots co-champions!


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:26:46 PM EST

Re: It's a Tie! (2.00 / 0)

Looking at Pistons-Celtics, sure, the Celtics "won more games in the series."  But what an arbitrary measure.  The Pistons scored more baskets---the Celtics scored more points, but that's only because they had more 3 pointers and fewer free throws.

We must be fair to Michigan.  Put the Pistons in the finals.  They match up better against the Lakers.

As a side note, per RCP, Obama won the popular vote.  But that was never the measure, and can't be with caucuses and primaries.  


John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way
by bosdcla14 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:49:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]